Without arguing for or against a diet, there may be a significant confounding factor: the fact that Shawn Baker’s blood glucose seems to rise might not necessarily be because of a longterm low carb (or keto) diet. He is also a highly trained athlete who competes in many heavy lifting competitions, so he has both dense muscles and probably a huge load of glycogen stored in this large mass. I’ve noticed this with my type-1 diabetic daughter who was a trained classical ballerina for ten years: she can raise her blood sugar dramatically (seen with her CGM) by simply exercising without eating. The traditional reaction by a “non-trained athlete” without eating according to her doctors is for your blood sugar to drop dramatically and not increase instead (hence the recommendation is to carb snack often). I regularly go to the gym and lift without having eaten for 18 hours and it’s pretty much the same (much smaller impact than my sleep quality) although it’s very wearing when on a four-day fast…
The people who seem to do very well on the carnivore diet seem to be athletes. Maybe there is something about having a large muscle mass (not necessarily massive muscles but being a well-trained athlete or someone who hits the gym hard regularly) to have a large supply of available glycogen to normalize your body and make it work?
And probably the answer is really: much better to be a well-trained athlete in all cases.
I’ve never seen any of the crazy “carnivore influencers” attached above outside of Shawn baker, and I’ve seen the same type of collection of weirdos for militant vegans, and for people who believe birds aren’t real, the pyramids are an ancient wireless communication device, etc — not the most convincing scientific method. (By the way I would never rely on Shawn baker’s “research” — it’s just “lifestyle coaching” BS). There aren’t real studies on keto/carnivore and longevity: I haven’t seen any that lasted more than a month or were epidemiological studies (assuming that eating SAD plus increased salami is equivalent to the carnivore diet) and mice and yeast don’t react the same way to meat so no ITP study. We have strong evidence of LDL/etc, but not in a very low carb environment. So we really don’t know and people who are using it are “biohacking” (which I would have thought would be encouraged and supported here) just like trying large doses of astraxanthin or new unproven senolytics: supportive with thoughts on managing risks and curious that the effects would be instead of continuous diet war rhetoric. If there is a study I’ve missed I’d love to see it.
Would regular fasts clear out damaged/crosslinked blood vessel material and plaques and thus be protective against CVD? I personally do four-day fasts a rough nine time per year (for autophagy impacts) so it would be nice if CVD was an issue I can worry about less.
That’s a contradiction since strong evidence means there is risk factor independence.
People who hang on with dear life to the ‘LDL is necessary but not sufficient for ASCVD’ statement totally miss the point. The point is to crush it so there is no ASCVD.
Not to believe high LDL is fine. If someone believes their high LDL or whatever is fine because they do other things right, they can do so if they want. I wouldn’t bet on that horse.
It can be difficult to crush apoB to low enough levels that other risk factors don’t matter anymore without using an expensive PCSK9i. That’s why addressing those is still important.
US pharmacy price is around $200, Turkish pharmacy price might be around $120 per month. So it is not that expensive for the average person if they prioritize their expenses. Based on 150 mg of Praluent one time per month.
If anyone is interested in lowering LDL on a keto diet, or just curious what it would entail. The video also mentioned macadamia nuts which I didn’t understand why Bryan Johnson have in his diet, but it did explain that a bit. Here is a PDF that came with it:
Perhaps not specifically related to this topic but thought I’d update on my carnivore journey. Fifth day today and went on the scale, apparently, I’ve lost 2.7LBS eating nothing but organic steaks lathered in wine and organic butter sauce, and last night had a three-pounder wild caught flounder. I also must say there absolutely no inflammation present anywhere in my body and feel very tranquil/calm. Craving veggies and other carbs like hell but have managed to stay pure for now. I want to do it for at least 30 days (until all the rolls of fat (exaggerating of course) in my tummy melt away, need to lose about 15-20 lbs) and then start introducing veggies but I doubt I’ll ever touch a potato or rice or bread in my life again.
If I ever decide to break my pledge it most likely will be boiled oats (let them cool to room temp before you eat them) in organic A2 milk, and that will most like be my food harem lol. Will keep you posted on what happens.
btw, I’m actually having 2-3 coffees daily with a little organic heavy cream and about couple grams of glycine to sweeten it a bit.
Let’s see here, dad of eight children, has hypercholestrolemia and type 2 diabetes, doesn’t seem to know about the former, two years later on the carnivore A1C has gone down a bit, to 5.7. His blood pressure was like 170/90 at the doctor’s office but it is lower in other situations. Fasting glucose was a bit elevated.
It seems like he’s saying he is worried about the LDL because of the U-shape curve of higher LDL being bad … and a “Dr AJ” that ‘is only worrying about LDL if it’s above 300 mg/dl’.
And here’s me who essentially shilled statins to my relatives until they started taking it. Now if only I could get my father convinced to take finasteride, maybe he wouldn’t have to wear a hat anymore all the time…
This guy had a heart attack in November 2015, went some time after that low carb then strict carnivore which he has been for 3 1/2 years. “He has had high cholesterol since his mid 20’s” He is going to have open heart surgery in a couple of weeks.
Yeah, same. But I would eat carbohydrates in that guy’s case, and also start taking PCSK9i + statin (or bempedoic acid) + ezetimibe + probably SGLT2i and maybe a GLP-1 agonist for weight loss if he’s still overweight.
I’ve been off the carnivore diet for 9-10 months now after eating mainly that way for 4 years as a last ditch effort to deal with major gut issues and food intolerances. I credit rapa for healing my gut, this forum for influencing me to embrace the potential benefits of plants again and the courses I took through Optimizing Nutrition that guided me slowly and carefully through the process for a successful transition. I had tried numerous times to go back to omnivore eating over the years and always failed in months 2 or 3. I liked carnivore fine but I really enjoy being able to eat a greater variety of foods now.
Long story short, you can’t just eat butter and lard and sit on a couch all day lol. You will most likely get a heart attack. I’m a big fan of animal/fish protein but as far fat goes, well, I’ll stick with my organic olive oil that stays liquid even in fridge, whereas butter and lard (animal fat) harden even at room temperature. Enough proof for me that one (olive oil) will smoothly move through the veins whereas butter and lard will clog your arteries. Little animal fat here and there is ok but KETO are you kidding me? I plan on doing KETO myself, but that will be when I’m 125 years old and all I will eat is butter and animal fat so that one day I’ll just forget to wake up. Best way to call it quits, in your sleep!
