Hey Everyone!
I was wondering if anyone takes rapamycin that smokes Marijuana or is taking kratom or similar opiates? I am wondering if there are any drug interactions I should be aware of? I don’t smoke but my wife does and before getting her on Rapamycin I want to know if it would be ok!
Thanks!
We have a thread here you should read. Kratom is pretty new so we haven’t run into it here yet or discussed it, but I recommend you research it and post anything you find here for other people.
Read this thread and the links it provides: Rapamycin Interactions with Other Food, Drinks, Supplements and Drugs - #4 by RapAdmin
And I recommend you get up to speed on all the dosing and potential side effects so you are pre-aware: Rapamycin Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
And marijuana seems like it might age people faster:
Conclusions
These findings suggest cumulative and recent marijuana use are associated with age-related epigenetic changes that are related to lifespan. These observed associations may be modified by alcohol consumption. Given the increase in use and legalization, these findings provide novel insight on the effect of marijuana use on the aging process as captured through blood DNA methylation.
All the “marijuana use” research is contaminated by the huge prevalence of recreational users (already a huge risk group in itself) + most people smoking it and not taking it via edible/oral routes. Ppl who take it to get high/psychoactive effects are not the same who take cannabinoids at sub-psychoactive doses for relaxation/anti-inflammation.
I found this page helpful for checking interactions
https://reference.medscape.com/drug/rapamune-sirolimus-343206
For marijuana this is what comes up so I’d be cautious “marijuana will increase the level or effect of sirolimus by affecting hepatic/intestinal enzyme CYP3A4 metabolism. Contraindicated.”
Hope nobody is using Kratom. Just say no!
Kratom is an immunostimulant and shown to help with covid but other than that i don’t think they interact
Yeah Kratom is a legal Supplement where I live and I’ve read some really good things about it, especially like you said about helping with Covid etc
Typical scare piece with little substance. I seriously doubt it had anything to do with the majority of the deaths listed, it was just found in the toxicology report of the deceased. I don’t take kratom, but have friends who do and am familiar with its pharmacology.
Kratom is a weak opioid, which will interact with the same things opioids interact with and can cause dependence–weakly. Don’t combine it with alcohol, bzd’s, sedatives and powerful antihistamines. Don’t take extracts, which are much stronger than the plant and move past the “weak” moniker. As with any herbal supplement or medication, review what enzymes it impacts (CYP 450 enzymes, UDP/UGT enzymes and beta glucuronidase) on pubmed or examine.com to see if it is a safe combination.
For the original question in this thread, Rapamycin is likely unimpacted by kratom use, as it does not inhibit CYP3A4 in a meaningful way (source).
I’ve been taking kratom daily for about the past week. Had my rapamycin last night and haven’t noticed anything different than usual.
The study, funded by the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (NHLBI), part of NIH, found that daily use of cannabis — predominately through smoking — was associated with a 25% increased likelihood of heart attack and a 42% increased likelihood of stroke when compared to non-use of the drug.
I hardly ever use cannabis so not much of a personal concern to me, but I wonder if strictly oral cannabis use would find the same association.
If you read anecdotal reports, kratom does seem to be associated with skin aging and hair thinning. These symptoms seem reversible according to the reports.
My experience corroborates this. After 3 months daily kratom (doses anywhere from 3-6g/day), it did seemed that my hair had thinned a bit, and my skin looked noticeably aged compared to pictures from 6 months ago.
Decided to cut it out entirely, and today is my 3rd day cold turkey. Essentially no withdrawal (maybe some fatigue), but I’ve taken phenibut the past few days which probably helped.
While I have no desire to take more, kratom does make me very sociable (probably more than any other substance I have ever tried), which is an effect I will miss.
Anyone really interested in Kratom which is legal in most U.S. states, should take a read through this paper.
https://www.mdpi.com/2543652
It’s a great detailed review. It does look as though there would be interactions with Rapamycin based on section 7, 3rd paragraph, listing inhibition of CYP3A4.
My experience and reading on this (which I’ve had a bit of experience), is that there are essentially no deaths with this being the single psychoactive drug. Deaths seem to occur almost exclusively when there is polypharmacy with psychoactive drugs, and this just happens to be part of the cocktail and is randomly picked out as a potential cause.
Now the issue of good for aging or not? I’m not certain - there are proposed neurodegenerative protection pathways in this paper. I suspect the dose is an issue and the doses 1-5 or 6 grams are possibly okay and low risk, but going up where they mention 15+ grams that things start going badly - but I suspect that even then, in conjunction with poly pharmacy in most cases.
People don’t use kratom for “cognitive benefits”, or preventing covid, let’s be real here, and sure there might be some open-access papers of dubious quality in journals like MDPI speculating on mechanisms for cognition, but that exists for anything.
Phenibut is a drug just like kratom, and it’s probably not to be messed around with too much? Like taking it for multiple days at a time (just like someone wouldn’t drink every day).
Phenibut isn’t much like kratom. It is primarily acting on GABA. I find folks have a lot of hangover from this and feel a bit poorly - but some people use it for anxiety. Kratom likely has a lot of binding probably multiple areas, but it’s principle effect is felt due to being partially bound to mu receptors (e.g. opioid receptors). You won’t get respiratory depression if you take a big dose of kratom - unlike if you take a big dose of morphine or fentanyl which are complete binders. Now this gets complicated if you take another drug simultaneous with kratom that also could cause respiratory depression - which is likely where a lot of deaths come from.
There is an anxiolytic effect with modest doses or kratom, a sense of well being, and often improved focus in the modest dose ranges e.g. 3-6 grams. There are a dozen or more variants depending upon where they are grown.
Anyway, I’ve dealt with a number of people who aren’t taking it to get high - it works better for them than Rx drugs and they are functional. The most common issue is itching (a bit of histamine release) and if using daily, constipation, which is typically mild if on a high fiber diet - but would be a problem on a standard American Diet.
I have plenty of clinical experience with this particular one - a little with phenibut … and I see stacks of ingestions in the ER. Toxicology is a fascinating area …
Pregabalin, phenibut, and gabapentin primarily act as antagonists of the alpha2delta subunit of voltage-gated calcium channels/VGCCs. They have no effect at GABA-A receptors (à la benzodiazepines), and while phenibut may have mild activity at GABA-B receptors, the classic gabapentinoid magic is most likely mediated through VGCC modulation.
In comparison, baclofen and fluorophenibut appears to act as more selective GABA-B agonists (perhaps due to their para-halogen substituents), and lack much of the magic of the aforementioned three gabapentinoids.