Also, is mesenchymal stem cell infusion even worth it?
I know bryan johnson got 100(?) million of “young swedish bone marrow” stem cells in an infusion, and recently got 300 million “young swedish bone marrow” stem cells injected into his joints (50 in each i think). I wonder why he went with bone marrow. Also he got the infusion in a different country than the injections into his joints…not sure why he went with bone marrow MSCs instead of umbilical cord. Also…why specifically “swedish”? Why are these clinics in south america sourcing from europe rather than from the donor pool in their own countries?
But mainly I just want to know what’s the difference between umbilical cord MSCs and bone marrow MSCs in terms of effectiveness.
Also is MSC infusion worth it?
I’m also thinking about getting MSCs injected into my face and found some clinics in mexico that are pretty affordable. Anyone have any experience with this?
More questions would be why not have your own stem cells created and multiplied with iPSC technique and is infusion of stem cells proven to be more efficient them young human plasma
@Karel1 Short answer is you could cause a tumor to grow somewhere in your body, or multiple places in your body where it could kill you. When we make iPSC’s in the lab, one way to test whether they are truly pluripotent is to inject them into immunodeficient mice. There they form tumors and grow very large. The mouse is euthanized and the tumor is sectioned and stained to show the presence of tissues derived from ectoderm, endoderm, and mesoderm. No tumor forms in immunocompetent mice because the cells are cleared by the mouse’s immune system. If you inject yourself with your own iPSC’s, they are recognized as “self” antigens or put another way, they are not recognized as foreign cells. It’s like a perfect transplant match. So they are not cleared by your immune system but they are outside of their embryonic niche and therefore grow and spontaneously differentiate wherever they end up in your body. Because of this risk, members of my lab were never allowed to make iPSC’s from their own tissues since it could be a needle stick away from a very bad situation.
@Imitation_Black, The MSC injection or cord blood injection of stem cells from another individual is not a good idea either. In this case the cells will likely just be removed by your immune system (sort of like transplanting an un matched kidney) and you will have wasted your time and money. Worse, you expose yourself to unknown blood born pathogens.
Since exosomes don’t self replicate like cells do I don’t see the same issues. I don’t know a lot about how exosomes are harvested but my focus would be on how they are purified from the cells producing them and the consequence of a few “producing” cells being injected with an exosome prep. Probably fine as long as the producing cells aren’t transformed and derived from the recipient. Contaminating pathogens are always a concern but can be screened for and generally eliminated using careful production techniques. I wouldn’t personally get an exosome infusion from a facility in Mexico for example.
Thanks. That brings to mind E5 and its exosomes from pigs. I don’t think this is what you’re saying, but would sourcing the exosome producing cells from pigs be safer than from the recipient? My apologies if I’ve twisted your meaning.
Yes, pig cells are unlikely to grow in humans so that would be a safer source than another human. No twist, your comment is the essence of what I’m saying.
As I understand it exosomes are micro samples of the membranes of their parental cells so they are likely to contain surface proteins from the cell of origin. It would seem you would have an immune response to exosomes made from cells of a non-human species. This immune reaction might be overcome by treatment with immunossupressants (steroids) prior to the fusion of the exosome with its target tissue.
My recollection of Harold Katcher’s E5 infusions of pig exosomes into rats is that no immunosuppressants were used. His filtering process may have removed surface proteins.
If adequately filtered before infusuion, how might pig exosomes differ from recipient exosomes? You noted that this isn’t your primary area, so how about a guess?
I would still be concerned that the immune system would wipe out pig exosomes but I don’t view a transient administration of steroids as a high risk thing to do to avoid it. I also don’t know the potential benefit of exosomes. This would obviously be a risk/benefit calculation.
The fact that mice didn’t need immunosuppression tells me almost nothing. The gene therapy field experienced the difference between mouse and larger animal immune systems over and over. Huge viral doses could be administered to mice with phenomenal gene transfer results but when attempted in dogs, nonhuman primates, or humans the immune system would completely neutralize the therapy. Steroids allowed a way around that.
What is your understanding of the benefit of exosome infusions? I should learn more.
It’s possible that exosomes are the magic bullet. Several age clocks showed that Harold Katcher’s exosome (E5) infused rats were dramatically rejuvenated. A hurdle is that his trials required the amount of young exosomes infused to be four times that of the recipient’s old ones.
From what I’ve gleaned here and there, exosomes are conserved across all mammalian species, identical in humans, pigs, rats and all the rest and the immune system doesn’t recognize them as foreign.
You might enjoy this Modern Healthspan video. It’s made up of portions of interviews addressing exosomes. The guy in the second one is pursuing infusion of the entire secretome; I don’t know if it involves immunosuppression.
