A bit of advice to you older guys, basic life extension

#1

Last Friday, I went to a urologist with symptoms unrelated to prostate cancer (PCa), and that same day though I have not even been told that I do have PCa, with a PSA of 54.3 and a palpable tumor the “size of a marble,” c’mon. The real question is: Has it gone beyond the prostate (metastasized)

Many years ago, the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF) dropped its recommendation for routine PSA blood tests for men in the absence of other factors (family members who had PCa). Recently they changed it to:

“(USPSTF) recommends that men between the ages of 55 and 69 have an individual discussion with their clinician about whether to undergo prostate-specific antigen (PSA) screening. The USPSTF found that PSA screening may slightly reduce the risk of death from prostate cancer in some men, but it also has potential harms, such as false-positive test results and diagnosing problems that wouldn’t have caused symptoms or death. The USPSTF also recommends that men 70 and older should not be routinely screened because the potential benefits do not outweigh the expected harms.”

My advice is simple: At least get routine PSA blood tests bi-annually.

I’m an RN and a good researcher. And, I followed their recommendations, and now, with a PSA of 54, (below 4 is normal) in a few words, “I’m screwed.” My tumor is likely 3-8 years in the making. Even if I had bi-annual PSA’s I would have picked it up years ago.

Enough of that, now for my request.

Just last Friday I hit 6mg Sirolimus (Zydex) and noticed, well, almost nothing. A strange, or perhaps imaginary side-effect is that the day or two after dosing I really, really, enjoy driving. We have a series of round-abouts and I use that route often at night. But, I noticed that they are a hell of a lot of fun on the two days after dosing—odd. No negative effects. Does sirolimus make you feisty?

So now, might any of you have any suggestions or advice, or thoughts on what a 74-year old guy w/ PCa might do? Increase Sirolimus, decrease? How about other life-extension meds such as berberine?

Tumors rely on glucose + glutamine. If one could stop the availability of both—Ca cells die.

I just did a 4-day water fast, and then have switched to a low-carb (<10 net grams/day) high-protein diet which puts one into ketosis (1.9 at the moment) and there is some good research, though complex that it’s beneficial in several ways—protecting the good cells as one goes into the “famine-high-ketone-protective mode” and starving the Ca cells. (I need to lose 20lbs, too).

Ca cells are clever, they can utilize glutamine. I just came across this:

Berberine Inhibits Growth of Liver Cancer Cells by Suppressing Glutamine Uptake

Any suggestions on berberine?

I’m lucky in one way. I have advanced cancer and feel great. Yet, in my case there is a ~54% chance that it has metastasized. I won’t know till end of August (Ca medicine is ho hum slow and waiting is nasty).

Any thoughts would be appreciated, but please, no “sorry about that/sympathy” Feel free to PM.

A particular question is: Should I aim high on Sirolimus w/ the PCa active? Perhaps go from the 6mg to 2mg + GFJ? and then pull three blood tests to find high and then use 2nd and 3rd to assess my removal half-life.

I wonder what ng/ml is best for Ca.

Thanks all

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#2

Though I am a physician, I am not giving any advice. A ketogenic diet, esp of the carnivore variety, will substantially reduce blood glucose, and your body and brain will use ketones for fuel. In theory, that is how cancer cells are starved. Being a carnivore takes practice, but I can honestly say is all of the changes have been positive for me (last three months), and my lab work is amazing.

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#3

High protein - especially animal protein is a huge m-tor activator, which can possibly enhance cancer growth.

Keto diets are not supposed to be high in protein, they are supposed to be high in fat, low carb and normal protein… protein can trigger insulin release.

Personally if I had to use a diet to enhance cancer treatment I would use pescatarian KETO with more emphasis on plant protein to provide just adequate protein for your needs. Eat tons of veggie with PUFA and MUFA. Seeds and nuts to increase the GOOD fat. And add 16:8 hour IF.

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#4
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#5

So many places to go here.
Do you actually know if your cancer is “advanced”? Hasn’t been staged yet right?
What did your Urologist say about treatment?
Agree with Keto diet, but cancer can find ways around that.
The recommendation for PSA is based on solid science. Too many false positives and most men with prostate cancer will die of something else.

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#6

lol Advanced = “nope,” diagnosed = “nope.” Just consider two things, a palpable tumor ~15mm + a 54.3 PSA. Regardless of anything else a PSA >20 = high-risk PCa.

Now it could get a low Gleason score, but a PSA of 54 = “advanced.”

Agreed with false +'s but once you’re above a PSA of 10-20 to not be PCa would be unusual, very unusual.

Agreed that only 4-5% diagnosed w/ PCa will die of it, but once again, if you get a PSA of 5, or 6 or 7, pretty much everybody here will know how to objectively (they’d research it) and proceed wisely.

For instance I might have seen a PSA of 6, five years ago and decided to ignore it. But then, two years later if it rises to 15, well… 90% it not a false +. But each of us has a right to do as we please.

Urologist says: nothing, as expected. We have a great medical system but it can proceed at a snail’s pace, frustratingly.

It’ll be staged in about 3-4 weeks, then + 3-4 weeks for MRI and a bone scan to see if it has metastasized.

Thanks for the link, it looks interesting. I appreciate your response Karl

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#7

Keto, citrate, melatonin → fix the mitochondria.

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#8

Keto, interestingly, I’ve been on for most of the last year. We’re talking 44 days of water fasting (Mostly 2-day fasts) w/ keto inbetween.

I’ve heard about melatonin and now take 5m before bed. I wonder if multiple doses would be wise, it’s half-life is very short, out of the system in ~3 hours.

Citrate…never heard of it. I’ll look into it, thank you.

I did just come across this which points to ^rapamycin doses. So I’ll continue to ramp up from 6m/weekly w/out GFJ. Today is my dosing day, I’ll take it with sardines in olive oil. Do I really need to lap up the oil, or will just eating some that sticks to the sardines suffice.

How much olive oil must I slug, ah if only could mix it w/ crushed garlic on really good chewy French bread, then I could eat tablespoons, but alas–no bread.

Thanks for your response John.

#9

See the publications of urologist Dr. Stephen J. Freedland of Cedar-Sinai (formerly at Duke) on ketogenic diet and prostate ca. Another research of metabolic approaches to ca, Dr. Eugene Fine, says that prostate ca doesn’t respond well to metabolic strategies, probably because it is more hormonal than glucose driven.

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#10

Probably, that’s where DHT blocker can be useful, finasteride or dutasteride

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#11

Melatonin half life is possibly 30 mins in serum. What happens in the mitochondria is unclear. I take between 500 and 1500 mg per day normally at night.

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#12

Any reason to dose melatonin throughout the day, due to short half-life?

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#13

I would start finasteride, dutasteride or even a more aggressive anti-androgen treatment asap. Rapamycin can help at high doses (20mg+) taken weekly or even 2-3x a week although that will result in significant immune suppression.

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#14

I don’t think that is a high enough dose to have any therapeutic effect.

Several studies have explored the use of high-dose melatonin for cancer treatment, typically ranging from 20 mg to 40 mg per day.

@John_Hemming and I take very high doses, probably for different reasons. I take 300 to 500 mg nightly with no ill effects or daytime sleepiness.

I can’t recommend this to anyone else but I am cancer free so far. I have no idea if it is a viable cancer treatment. From what I have read it is one of the preventatives.

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#15

You are correct. I was surprised how little is left considering such a high dose. Even though on average, the pineal gland secretes about 0.1 to 0.8 milligrams (mg) of melatonin per day. The remainder is very small. Unfortunately, I hadn’t done my homework on this. I have taken it in the past in the morning on awakening. It did not cause any drowsiness. John takes a second dose during the night if he wakes up.

“To determine how much melatonin remains in the body after a certain time, given its half-life, we can use the formula for exponential decay. The formula is:
N(t)=N0(12)tT1/2N(t) = N_0 \left(\frac{1}{2}\right)^{\frac{t}{T_{1/2}}}N(t)=N0​(21​)T1/2​t​
where:
N(t)N(t)N(t) is the remaining amount of the substance after time ttt,
N0N_0N0​ is the initial amount of the substance,
ttt is the elapsed time,
T1/2T_{1/2}T1/2​ is the half-life of the substance.
In this case:
N0=500N_0 = 500N0​=500 mg (initial amount of melatonin),
T1/2=42.5T_{1/2} = 42.5T1/2​=42.5 minutes,
t=24×60t = 24 \times 60t=24×60 minutes (since we need the time in minutes to match the half-life units).
Let’s calculate this step-by-step.
First, convert 24 hours to minutes:
t=24×60=1440 minutest = 24 \times 60 = 1440 \text{ minutes}t=24×60=1440 minutes
Now, use the exponential decay formula:
N(1440)=500(12)144042.5N(1440) = 500 \left(\frac{1}{2}\right)^{\frac{1440}{42.5}}N(1440)=500(21​)42.51440​
Let’s compute the exponent:
144042.5≈33.882\frac{1440}{42.5} \approx 33.88242.51440​≈33.882
Now, calculate the remaining amount:
N(1440)=500(12)33.882N(1440) = 500 \left(\frac{1}{2}\right)^{33.882}N(1440)=500(21​)33.882
Let’s solve this.
After 24 hours, the amount of melatonin left in the body would be approximately 3.16×10−83.16 \times 10^{-8}3.16×10−8 mg, which is an extremely small amount, effectively negligible.”
​​After 12 hours, the amount of melatonin left in the body would be approximately 0.00397 mg, which is still a very small amount"

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#16

My daughter ( in her 30’s with 2 little boys) got mucinous ovarian cancer a few years ago and they couldn’t treat with any chemo, so used lots of alternatives instead. There are companys that specialize and work on this. She is currently no evidence of disease. Here is a page for prostate cancer from one of the companies:

It looks like they like metformin, doxycycline (I would take with IV vitamin C), and mebendazole (I’d probably use fenbendazole (my daughter did)). Also use Pectasol, it’s a no brainer.

Good Luck,

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#17

Melatonin in serum Is part metabolised and part absorbed into cells. That absorbed end up iin the mitochondria. I dont know how quickly the mitochondria use it. However, i dont see a reason for frequent daily dosing although it would be an interesting experiment

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#18

No advice, but wanted to commend you on your amazing attitude! Very resilient

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#19

I thought you wanted to bathe your spinal fluid with melatonin.
If that is the case, wouldn’t more frequent dosing be beneficial?
Or, do you think the melatonin remains in the spinal fluid for a longer time?

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#20

My father had prostate cancer and had it removed surgically. It did spread to the bladder and lymph nodes, but they treated it successfully with radiation. It’s now been 3 years after surgery and his PSA is zero and there are no signs of cancer anywhere. He switched to a Pesco-vegetarian diet as he didn’t want growth hormones from meat and animal products feeding the cancer. He was 74 yo at the time of the surgery.

If your cancer has not metastisized, I’d consider surgery and radiation therapy for the cure.

Also, you should check if there are any immunotherapies available. They can do a DNA test to see if you match. If you do, the cancer can usually be cured easily and quickly. IMHO, this is the best option.

The Rapamycin doses for cancer seems to be 5 mg daily based on my research for my father in law who has pancreatic cancer.

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