Same for me. If I drink coffee or sometimes even large coke gives me a really unpleasant feeling of anxiety… I really like coffee and drink decaf, but sometimes I forget to order decaf and sometimes especially if I drink it late morning, noonish, early afternoon I get this bodily feeling that is so strong that I need to take betablocker to function normally.
When I analyzed my DNA I found out that I metabolize caffeine poorly. After my morning coffee, I get a strong afternoon reaction, some kind of crash/brainfog. It can be eliminated if I do high intensity training. I speculate that the increased blood flow reduces the vasoconstriction in the brain that is said to come with caffeine.
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It negatively impacts my sleep on the days I take it (usually in the morning), but I seem to sleep better the following days (perhaps recovery of lost sleep).
Honestly, the study doesn’t really tell us anything new that researchers in the sleep field wouldn’t already know.
Essentially , caffeine changes arousal thresholds, resulting in mice staying awake when they would normally be asleep in a siesta. This in turn increases the drive to sleep ( known as sleep pressure) during the mice’s rest phase which would explain the consolidation they see in sleep during rest phase. Also changing arousal threshold would also explain why you see a shift in timing of sleep…
I don’t trust any studies that investigate sleep that do not use EEG to determine sleep states. There are many instances where mice can enter sleep like states during wake without showing physical signs of sleeping and vice versa. EEG is the gold standard for determing sleep stages.
Also it gets more complex if the conversation opens to something known as local sleep…
I think the main thing here is that drinking caffeine earlier in the day ( I would say not drinking any coffee within 8 hours before bed although the literature on the half life of caffeine is mixed) will increase your arousal threshold and essentially increase your drive to sleep later in the day. Although the quality of the sleep(i.e. sleep intensity) may be questionable since the investigators did not investigate sleep intensity.
I also wonder if the effects on CBV may be due to withdrawal and the caffeine leaving the system during that time. Also I wonder if effects seen during the wash period are due to changes in homeostatic drive to sleep during caffeine administration.
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After 3 weeks my Oura ring scores for deep sleep and HRV have plummeted (lowest HRV scores in 4 years) , although the first week , I took 2 mg , and my deep sleep doubled. Then I went to 4 mg the 2nd and third week. One week was a 6 day week. That might have caused some trouble. This 4th dose will be after 9 days and I will take 6 mg. Hoping to get better HRV results then this past week. Hoping deep sleep improves. It it does not improve in the next two weeks I will go back to 2 mg. Also my sleep efficiency score has plummeted. Seems to be effecting my lungs and breathing. I now have mucus in my nose and in back of throat and I have not had any of that for over a year.
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this is a great thread.
I came on here today to research Rapa and sleep. I’ve been sleep hacking for the last 10-12 years and have found that TCM is the only thing that keeps me asleep for more than an hour. Needless to say, I was nervous starting Rapa after reading this thread however I started a few weeks ago and have already a difference in my sleep pattern.
My normal sleep pattern has typically been getting a full 90 minute cycle and then waking every 2 hours, staying in bed for a full 9 hours every night.
First week I started with 1mg and sleep well the first night and by the 3rd or 4th night I was getting well over 3 hours each night thereafter. my next dosing, I increased to 2mg and after the 5th day, I woke up once and then slept for an additional 6 FULL hours straight. That literally hasn’t happened in 10 years.
Sleep has been my only health concern so I’m thrilled at my results so far!
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Congratulations. I wonder when, during the day you take rapamycin?
Most people take it in the morning. But I have read that some in the community have experimented with taking it before going to bed.
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Sounds like a mitochondria thing. The thing to understand about sleep is that we have sleep cycles which are the ultradian HPA cycles. If those are in parasympathetic state we can sleep. If in sympathetic state we are awake and that will last until the next cycle. (about 90 mins)
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I just shifted to before bed rapa dosing. I slept like a baby the first time. That’s my plan until it doesn’t work.
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I have been dosing first thing in the morning on an empty stomach with krill oil.
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I actually prefer taking rapa at night as well. Someone here suggested not swallowing the pills until you are literally about to nod off so that’s what I’ve been doing and it works great for me even as a person with major sleep issues from decades of shift work.
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