Just read this whole “rapalogue”, loved it! Thanks a lot @HigoMe33. Any update since Sept 2023? It’s now been 1y of rapa?
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Month 14 - Rapamycin
Hello again! When I started this journey I read several other people’s write-ups about their experience with Rapamycin. In every case I was disappointed when the narrative just stopped. “What happened next?” I wanted to know. Did you die?? Did you transfigure?? Were you in the ER for three weeks or had you moved to Fiji to live your best life?
So I started this rapalogue mostly for the sake of others who might be interested in beginning a similar journey. At the time I made three implicit promises: 1) I would always be honest, although to be fair I have a strong emotional desire for rapamycin to work well. 2) I would keep writing so the narrative would not fall off. 2) I would only write when there was something interesting to say.
So here we are in Month 14 and I have some hopefully interesting updates!
My Rapa Experience So Far
When I started up rapa again in the late summer/ early fall, I determined to run the marathon and not the sprint. Yes, I went whole hog in the Spring with some very large doses. I was curious what it would be like and secretly hoped that I would unlock some superpower level of energy, self-awareness or similar.
All that extra rapa didn’t make much difference as far as I can tell. My subjective sense is that maybe it blew out some crud from the system, as one would do with an old car’s carbeurator by revving the engine a few times quite hard. That said, I don’t plan to go back to those doses.
In my dosing for the last few months I was influenced by three things (I know, three again).
First, last time I checked the doctors taking rapa were bunched around 4-6 pills once a week. Second, the Manic study (do I recall her name correctly?) used 5 pills a week. Third, I read someone saying that they thought rapa had a bigger effect on them when it was a lower dose.
I think this third item is worth thinking about for a moment.
Could it be that a lower dose somehow affects the human system better than a higher dose? I’m not a doctor, but I can say that the larger doses didn’t make me feel anything in particular. I wasn’t more likely to get the mouth sores, I wasn’t more jazzy, I didn’t feel more healthy whatever that would mean.
On the contrary, when I have taken lower doses I have gotten more mouth sores, and I actually have felt more energy. (I recall someone on these boards saying that her husband started taking rapa and did all the chores he had been putting off in a flash).
My Recent Dose: 4 pills with Olive Oil
With this information I’m not going very low, but I have settled on 4 pills a week taken by spoon, submerged in a nice peppery Extra Virgin Olive Oil with a second spoonful as a chaser. I figure 4 with fat should equal about 5, which is where I have been since September.
I keep saying “pills” instead of the dose because I can’t recall if it’s a gram or milligram or whatever. But whatever the standard pill is, I’m taking 4 a week.
After this prelude the obvious question would be: do you feel better or different with the lower dose? I think so. Again, not superhuman, but I do get a boost and sometimes a very big one (not sure why "sometimes). I also feel like I can tell as the amount in my system lowers throughout the week.
In any case, this feels more sustainable, and honestly it’s nicer to not have to think about how creative I want to be this week with doses, or whether this is the week to take the pills or skip, as I did when I was taking the much higher doses and waiting a much longer time between doses.
The Fall was busy for me so I neglected to get the blood test that I was planning on. I will get one this late winter or spring.
Bottom line: I am still taking rapa after 14 months and I feel great. I’ve had no major health issues except for a shoulder impingement from the summer that is finally healing (apparently I was re-injuring it every night by how I slept).
I have put on 15 pounds since last year as I have been lifting heavy weights and taking a LOT of protein daily (100 grams minimum). Lots of the weight is added muscle, but if I’m being honest there’s some extra weight that I plan to shed this spring. The trick is that you need a calorie surplus to grow muscle, so there’s always the bulk-cut routine. I’ve been on a bulk for at least a year so it’s time to cut.
The “cut” plan will be to narrow the window when I am eating to about 7 hours, noon to 7pm. I’ll still keep the protein high but I will cut back on unnecessary carbs like chocolate which I enjoy. We’ll see how it works. I’m not going to be obsessive about the cut. My plan is to see if I can half-ass-it and still get a result. If that doesn’t work I’ll have to whole-ass-it come April or so.
I do note that it has NOT been hard to gain muscle on these rapa levels, as long as I’m getting enough protein and enough rest.
As a final aside regarding the rest of my health routine, I am continuing to drink kefir every other day or so and kimchi on about the same schedule. I take fiber powder every day with a protein drink mid afternoon with 1-2 drops of pumpkin seed oil and a scoop of creatine.
The pumpkin seed oil is part of my hair-retention strategy. It definitely affects my system. I also take a full pill of minoxidil just about daily. I is supposed to be a half pill, but it became too hard to cut the pills. (Has anyone else noticed that pill companies are making their pills really hard to halve? I also continue to use high DHT-blocking shampoo and my hair is very full. In fact, I found a photo of me from 2018 and I was shocked by how thin my hair was on top. I showed my partner and she also didn’t realize it had gotten so thin. (Recall, I started with minoxidil and finasteride in liquid, but shifted after about a year to the routine above.)
The only other supplement I’m taking is Magnesium. I just started eating some gummy Flintstones vitamins that my partner takes daily.
Okay enough of that.
My Partner
Here’s where it gets really interesting again! My partner dipped into menopause and then rocketed back out!
Here’s the story, which I began in my September post, but which now has the full detail.
Both my partner and I (and our dog) started taking rapa at the same time. When I went ballistic in the Spring with the high doses she kept on taking 5 pills a week. By the time August came she’d been taking rapa on a more or less weekly basis for 8 months.
Her periods had been more or less regular leading up to this point and she had her last period one week before we went on a trip to Hades, er Florida, in August. She decided to take a rapa vacation for the three week trip.
For context, the weather was blazing hot. Insanely hot. The temperature was in the hundred-and-teens many days in the sun and we were in the happiest place on earth which means we were walking miles and miles a day.
So no rapa, hot, and intense exercise.
One week after we got there she got her period. This was just two weeks since her last period. This never happens to her.
After the three weeks off rapa, when we returned home, two of our children tested COVID-positive. She and I figured we were doomed so we didn’t take any special precautions, figuring we’d quickly get COVID and get over it. But neither of us ever got sick.
However, she did start getting intense hot flashes. At first she thought this was her COVID, but the tests were consistently negative. At this point she did begin taking rapa again, so it was 3 hot, busy weeks without.
Ten days later she went to the OBGYN thinking she was in menupause (finally). He did blood tests and, lo and behold, MENOPAUSE! It indeed had arrived. She asked him about a number of things related to menopause and he was apparently glib and super-unhelpful. If you know my partner you know that was the end of that particular doctor-patient relationship.
Four weeks after that surprise second period… nothing. No period. Five weeks, six weeks, nothing. I secretly would love another child although neither of us are spring chickens (50+), so it seems unlikely. What seemed likely was that she was indeed in menopause. She took a pregnancy test anyhow and said she felt stupid doing it. Yep, nothing, no baby. Finally the period returned.
In this time, and throughout to the present she continued taking 5 pills a weeks of rapa with a breakfast that included lots of butter.
She found a different professional who specializes in menopause and went to see her about a month after her OBGYN appointment. This person is apparently awesome. She suggested that my partner take another set of blood tests, just for some more clarity. Guess what: not in menopause. The doctor recommended going on the pill for the sake of menstrual control, which my partner did.
The hot flashes diminished weekly, at the same time that she began taking rapa again (a correlation at least, always hard to tell causation). By the time she got on the pill they were completely gone.
At this point my partner has had a period monthly four months in a row, with no other menopause symptoms.
So it is kind of interesting, isn’t it? Without rapa and under stress her body dipped into menopause, but with a resumption of rapa and a return to less stress she pulled out hard and has not dipped back in. Perhaps the pill has some effect too? I’m not sure.
She says she doesn’t notice anything when she takes rapa. No energy, no extra-sociality. “I don’t notice it,” she says.
My Dog
My dog is so happy! She continues to be vigorous at the ripe old age of 13. Her eyes are slightly cloudy, but I’ll tell you she still sees well and still loves to run around and chase other dogs. She gets tired after a short time of that rough-housing–shorter than it once was–but she still engages in the chasing and barking, etc., daily.
Every once in a while I notice one of her legs shaking. It’s very slight, and appears to possibly be due to a tired muscle. I notice it for maybe 10-15 seconds every week or two.
You’ll recall she’s been taking 3 pills a week for 14 months.
We do have a second dog, which could keep her extra fit. What else? I’m not sure, she’s just doing great. No illness. Oh, she got a tick this summer and we removed it to no major effect.
Oh, she does also have more skin tags than usual. She’s always been prone to getting “lumps” as some dogs do. Those fatty tumors that don’t seem to mean much. Her skin tags do seem to be adding up though. Back in the day there were none, then maybe one or two. Now they’re bigger and we keep thinking they’re ticks. Also she has age spots on her rump that you can see through somewhat thinning hair. But she’s not gray at all, and just a delight in every way.
Conclusion
Well that’s it for us. I do hope it won’t be four months again before a post, but we’ll see. When I have something interesting I’ll share it for sure! Thanks to everyone for the support. Rapa-on!
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You may want to pause the rapamycin for your dog (or increase days between doses, or lower dose)…
I saw this post by a person taking rapamycin in another forum, who paused the rapamycin (for other reasons):
Had a surreal experience. I go see a dermatologist due to a few skin tags that happened in the last year. She looks at them carefully and immediately asks the question: were you on any kind of immunosuppressant? (Rapamycin isn’t mentioned in any of my health records). She said immunosuppressants like cyclosporine can cause the fat gland outgrowths like the one I have on my front head. Luckily they’re benign.
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This is fascinating. Thank you for sharing. What I’m wondering is whether this is an acceptable side effect or something that should lead us to stop rapa. I’m not sure how to reason this out. Would the skin tags suggest she’s getting too much rapa or that it may be doing more harm than good?
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I believe MK said in one of the interviews that it seems benign side effect, but I am not sure how would I interpret it. My dog is on rapamycin about a year and also developed one tag, he is 13 years old. His vet is not worrying but I do.
Regarding the dosing, MK also said that he worries that dosing on Dog aging project is too low.
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We’re in the same place with our dogs. For dosing we’re following MK’s protocol exactly, which has her on 3 pills a week. I asked my partner if she was concerned about the skin tags and she wasn’t at all. I guess I’d like to know more about why tags would be an issue. My sense is that it’s not the tag itself, but what it may represent – a metabolic failure that might have other ramifications. If this is the case, I wonder what those other ramifications might be.
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Yes - all reports are that the skin tags are benign, so its not a huge worry I don’t think. But you may want to research the issue a little more deeply to find out if it suggests any other negative risks that may be developing…
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I used to have skin tags, but more recently I have not been able to find them. I am not sure when they went or exactly why they went. Because I have so many interventions it is hard, but not impossible, to know what causes what. It was probably the citrate, but it could have been something else. I remember having them, but they may have stopped before 2022 in which case it might be melatonin or vitamin D.
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I have skin tags. I have a family history of them. No one in my family has ever died (or had any other negative effects) arising from skin tags. I heard that they can be caused by eating too many carbohydrates? Honestly, though, there are much more important fish to fry than worrying about these benign eyesores.
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Good question, but unfortunately I don’t think anyone has an answer to this yet. We really are early on in the quest to learn the optimal dosing of rapamycin for longevity, for any type of mammal.
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I didn’t worry about skin tags when I had them. I only wish I knew when they disappeared as I would have a better idea of why they disappeared.
What I would say is that Rapamycin did not cause the skin tags I had, but also taking Rapamcyin has not created skin tags. However, I take it quite infrequently. Probably the least frequent of regular users of Rapamycin on this forum. (currently 21 or 28 days, it was 28 days over christmas because I left my normal base, but I intend trying it at 21 days soon and possibly with grapefruit juice - not that I like grapefruit juice I am wondering if eating a pomelo (or part of one) would be a nice alternative).
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Could it be the berberine improving your blood glucose?
I don’t know what causes the skin tags. I do think one thing that increased cytosolic acetyl-CoA does is to enable cells to better handle local disruption without bringing in the immune system (through cytosolic ROS). That tends to get rid of warts and may therefore be the cause of the skin tags disappearing. However, I don’t know.
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I think they’re a sign of insulin resistance
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I think MK’s dog aging project was using something like 0.1 to 0.15 mg per kg of body wt. So 3 mg (three 1 mg pills I assume) would be suitable, in his study for a body wt of roughly 20 to 30 Kg or 44 to 66 lbs. You might shoot for low end if not there.
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Very interesting about the menopausal states. Thank you for sharing!
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She’s actually scared to stop Rapa now lol, well not scared but not inclined to do it, given what happened in August. She’s been getting worse headaches than usual, unfortunately, but the periods have been like clockwork since. She’s 53 fwiw. Thanks for commenting
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Just saw this video on skin tags… perhaps of interest for your dog.
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Much appreciated! We’re giving her a brief rapa vacation to see if it makes a difference. It will be her first such vacation since she started on rapa about 1st months ago. Will check in to let everyone know how it goes.
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