Yes that is likely 17AE. With luck we will be able get it also 17 Alpha Estradiol: Use and Dosing Experiences - #20 by RickCohenMD
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An anyone comment in detail on the relative merits (generally) of delivering hormone supplementation via oral, topical cream or patch, or injection… Is there one way that is clearly better or more cost effective? (from our experience with female estradiol use, or male testosterone supplementation).
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For Europeans 300 ml Pantostin costs 47 USD excluding shipping, which at 0.25 mg / ml would be 75 doses of 1 mg. Around 20 USD a month for 1 mg a day or 7 mg once a week, if everything is absorbed and is correct. OTC.
For Americans it’s apparently possible to buy it on Ebay from Germany, but shipping will probably cost a lot.
Anyone have thoughts on using Pantostin topically for 17α-Estradiol?
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In terms of testosterone I think injection is probably most effective but annoying to do. Oral I would avoid, I believe it can hurt the liver. Patches sound convenient, I see that’s what Bryan Johnson is using
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Gotta agree with Kris.
Weekly injection - in thigh…switch legs each week. My dose is 1 ml 200 mg.
Almost 4 years now… helps maintain toned body… no fat…and muscles maintaied… strength solid.
My body toned appearance looks exact same … no physical change or feel any different in 4 years of use. Hanging in suspension. Which is great at 65 years.
I see a variety of physicians for urology, manual body adjustment, dermatology and those who assist them. All amazed at my extreme good shape and know I am on rapamycin.
I am not a gym hulk… I am a solid, shredded, veined out tone guy. I asked one young doc do I looked toned for my age? His reply, “You looked toned for any age!”
It definitely works well in combination with rapamycin. I like to think any negatves of testosterone are countered by rapamycin. Keeping heart and blood in great shape.
I was reluctant to start TRT… bad press and such… a lot of that previous attitude is changed. Old men need more testosterone to function healthier. You lose T as you get older… it significantly can help in your health and vitality.
My advice for 50 years and up…if you are thinking you might need a boost… you probably do.
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Hi DrEcsta,
I appreciate reading about your experience with 17-Alpha Estradiol, and getting your recommendations for its preparation and dosing. After reading through your posts, I have a few questions:
• Early on you had an acne breakout and cut back from 1mg to 0.5mg daily. What happened to the acne? What made you decide to resume taking 1mg per day?
• When you wrote that you’d been taking 1mg/day of 17aE2 for 100 days, had you been taking orally after dissolution in DMSO and then mixed with MCT oil?
• If so, and if you were getting good results, why did you switch to taking it sublingually?
• Have your results with 1mg/day sublingual 17aE2 been worse, equal, or better than when taking it orally with MCT oil?
Thank you!
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It would be interesting to know why Bryan is taking it weekly. Does 17AE have any side effects that warrant dosing it weekly? Or isn’t that why rapa is typically used weekly or biweekly?
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Here is the exact spot in the video where he talks about it…
yes, its obviously 17 alpha estradiol, why he’s dosing weekly? I guess it all comes down to the proportion of the 17AE in his formulation, how much he puts on that one day of the week, and any potential side effects he’s experiencing…
I wonder if higher doses of 17AE impacts his testosterone levels?
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It can be of practical reasons, now that I think about it using it everyday seems a bit of a hassle, especially with the topical formula.
Can you please share a little more about the 17 alpha estradiol topical cream that Bryan is using and talking about in the video? What dosing (mg/per application) do you target for a weekly dose? Why weekly? Why not daily? Why cream rather than the oral option?
Will you be making this available commercially? (in Europe if not in the USA, as I don’t believe that 17AE is yet approved for even topical use by the FDA, but I may be wrong on this).
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An ester could possibly be added to the 17 Alpha Estradiol to make it fat soluble. Also something to look into is if the 17AE will cause a suppression of androgen production if the body senses it the same as 17BA.
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Is there a widely available blood test for this?
Yea a basic testosterone test that shows LH levels as well. You would need a before test.
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We need to define an ideal “pre-test” and “post-test” protocol and for 17 alpha estradiol, so we can more easily track possible side effects and benefits of this compound… because it hasn’t yet gone through clinical trials in healthy males. If people are using this, or planning to use this compound, please review all the literature here: 17-Alpha Estradiol - Another Top Anti-Aging Drug
And try to develop what we should/might do for pre-testing (blood tests, etc.) and post testing, and post that information here for discussion.
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Since 17-AE is a weak estrogen I think there is good reason to think it will act like a SERM in men(Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator). A SERM stimulates the HPTA axis by docking in the estrogen receptor of the hypothalamus with low/no estrogenic activity and thus stimulates endogenous LH/FSH and testosterone production. If true then blood tests should indicate elevated testosterone and estrogen levels in men with functional HPTAs. Of course if you are on TRT this will not be the case as endogenous test production is muted.
I think this jives well with Dr. Ecsta’s claim of increased acne. I would expect symptoms of elevated androgens like acne and libido.
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This makes sense. When they autopsied the mice didn’t they find the ones on 17ae2 had greater muscular and bone density? I think Richard Miller mentioned that in a podcast
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What proportion of transcutol did you use with Ell-Cranell ? 1:1 ?
I just ordered 300 ml Pantostin from Germany apohealth.de for 45.30 Euro ($48.62 on my Bank of America credit card) and shipping is free to USA.
I plan to mix with 25% transcutol (like Boldi suggested) (500ml Diethylene Glycol monoethyl Ether available from Eastchem on Amazon.com for $76) and apply 1ml Pantostin (0.25mg 17alpha-Estradiol) per day on my forearm.
Update : Lotioncrafter.com has Ethoxydiglycol 1 lb for $30.25, including shipping + tax and includes a certificate of analysis (claims to be 99.5% pure, vs 99% for the Eastchem version on amazon.com)
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Please do some pre and post blood testing and let us know how your experiment goes.
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I plan to do LEF CBC ($35) + CRP ($42) + Basic Male Hormones ($75 Estradiol + Free/Total Testosterone + PSA) + DHT ($50), figuring that 17alpha-Estradiol’s effect as a DHT blocker (like Finesteride and Duasteride) may need to be monitored.
Anything else ?
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